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Saturday, February 7, 2015

Vaccination Preoccupation

Vaccination Preoccupation
A cranky opinion for


The following is the opinion of a cranky old man with little expertise in the subject opined.   Opposing opinions are welcome.  Please, as always, no name calling, that means you, you big numbskull.

When does the public good trump individual rights.  Vaccinations for measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough and polio among others have virtually wiped out these very serious diseases.  Time and experts have proven these vaccinations to be safe, yet some parents do not want their children vaccinated.  They fear the vaccinations are not safe.  Many believe the vaccinations may be responsible for the current increase in autism.  They don’t want their children vaccinated.

Do parents have the right to not vaccinate their children?  If their children are not vaccinated, do they put other children, very young children who have not had the chance to be vaccinated, at risk?  Do parents have the right to put others at risk?

Experts and tests have proven the autism scare to be false. 

Some people do not trust experts.  History has proven that experts are sometimes not trustworthy.  Sometimes they have other agendas. 

I don’t believe they have other agendas in this case, but is it an individual’s right to mistrust and to not vaccinate their children?

It is a tricky question.  Do we have a right to determine what we do with our bodies?  Can medicine, medical treatment, vaccinations be forced on us by Government mandate?  Do we have the right to choose?

If we don’t where do we draw the line? I am told every year I should get a flu shot.  I do not want a flu shot.  I don’t trust them.  They are different every year.  Some people who get the shot still get the flu.  Some people think the shot gave them the flu.  These people are probably wrong.  They are probably stupid.  I am probably stupid.  Do I have a right to be stupid?

I don’t have the right to drive my car 100 mph.  It puts others at risk.  Does not vaccinating your child put others at risk?  Probably to some extent it does.  Still, most in my generation had measles, mumps, chickenpox and rubella as children.  I did, yet sometimes these diseases are fatal. 

I believe the vaccinations are safe and every child should have these vaccinations.  I am not sure about the multiple vaccination cocktail given to very young babies.  I would feel safer spreading the shots out over time, maybe six months to a year.  That also is probably stupid.  Do I have a right to be cautious?

On one hand, I don’t like government interference.  I don’t like government telling me what I must do.  On the other hand I don’t like being at risk or having my children at risk because someone acts against the better good of the whole community.

I should shower regularly.  If I don’t others suffer my odor.  It may even be a health risk.  I don’t like being forced into situations where I must suffer the poor grooming habits of others, but should government regulate everyone’s personal hygiene?

I think vaccinations should be easily available to all children.  I think parents should be encouraged to vaccinate their children.  I think there should be programs to educate the public on the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.  Perhaps there should even be negative incentive such as a tax on people not vaccinated. 

If parents of unvaccinated children suffer the scorn of others much like smokers, or people with poor hygiene, then so be it.

Here is my position.  Make the vaccinations free if there is a hardship issue.  Encourage, cajole, educate, and in some cases even quarantine those who choose not to vaccinate. Make the decision not to vaccinate a difficult decision, but I do not like to see government mandate health procedures.

I am on the fence with this one; a slight breeze could push me in either direction.  Right now I am on the side of free choice.  My mind tells me to mandate vaccinations.  My gut tells me it is a potentially dangerous precedent to tell people what medicine or drugs they have to put in  their bodies.

Opposing  (well, a non wishy washy) view:

The preceding was the opinion of a cranky old man and not necessarily that of management…Mrs. Cranky.  


  1. i think this spread of measles and probably polio coming next scares the bejeebers out of me - not for myself (i'm vaccinated and don't have kids or grandkids to worry about, either) but for our country as a whole. i have a friend who had polio as a child because her mother didn't get her vaccinated. she has a limp and wears a leg brace for her entire life. such a simple thing to avoid it...

  2. I never thought twice about not vaccinating my kids. Of course they are 28/25 years old so it wasn't the time that they were thinking vaccinations were causing autism. I just thought it was the right thing to do to protect them from potentially getting illnesses. It is interesting, and I'm not following it enough in the news, but they had that measle outbreak at Disneyland that seems to be making its way across the country. The only vaccine I didn't go for was the chickenpox one as it was just coming in when the kids were in that age group where they were susceptible to getting it and it wasn't mandated by schools then to get it. They both got chickenpox when one was in 2nd grade, the other in 6th grade.

    I haven't gotten a flu shot in years, but I'm nearing the age where I should get the shingles shot and I'm seriously thinking of getting that one.

    So I think I'm on the fence too about it and probably will remain on the fence until it impacts me more, like discussing with kids if they have kids about what they'll do with vaccinations.


  3. I had measles as a three year old. I spent two weeks in the hospital and damn near died. I was grateful for immunizations for my children. I believe it was a series of two or three shots. My oldest daughter was in kindergarten and I had her in for her final shot. We later determined the doctor's office was where she was exposed to measles. She had them almost as bad as I did, and the doctor opined catching the measles on top of the immunization made the measles much worse. This experience did not change my mind. I believe people should be immunized at appropriator times. If not, they don't go to school.

  4. I believe kids should be immunized. It's for the good of all, not the one.

    Have a fabulous day Cranky. ☺

  5. I wish pediatricians would ban non vaccinated kids from their practices. Newborn babies come there and risk exposure in the waiting room. I wish public schools would also ban non compliant kids. Do whatever you want, crazy parents, but don't inflict the consequences on innocent families.
    As for epidemic autism, I think it developed from additives to our food. I mainly suspect inhumane factory farming.

  6. I believe every kid should get the vaccination.
    I also believe it shoul be provided free.
    I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else what to do.
    I do think that when experts ssuggest something, it just might be a good idea to follow those suggestions, like when it is suggested that we wear a parachute if we are going to jump from a plane.

    1. I assume you mean if in fact the plane is not still on the ground.

  7. If you were born before 1957 then you were immunized against measles. No ifs, ands or buts about it. I recall getting the shot in school. It was mandatory, and the result was that measles were eradicated in the USA. There was never a link established between these immunizations and autism, which seemed to grow in the population AFTER people stopped immunizing their children. There is no logical reason to NOT have your child immunized. Only parents pushing a personal agenda don't see this. In my opinion, they place their politics over their child's safety. I think there's something wrong with us as a society that we keep re-fighting old battle, even battles we've already won, instead of tackling the new challenges facing us.

  8. Yes, i debated it. Yes, i had some questions. Yes, i had my kids vaccinated anyway, and i'm glad i did.

    Yes, i agree they should have the right to choose, and just as smokers are told to go smoke their stuff away from those of us who don't, parents who don't vaccinate should keep their kids away when something like this is going around.

  9. I believe I should make my health care decisions based upon what my doctor says, not some former nude Playboy model.

    I believe people who are a threat to society (and I consider measles as a public threat) should be separated from society. Especially the part of society that is my family.

  10. I was born before the vaccine and in those days if one sibling came down with the measles, we were all piled into the same room to catch them. Catching the measles provided our future immunity. How wonderful that there is now a way to prevent such diseases with out having to suffer the disease first. I am for immunization.

  11. I think our pediatrician knows everything, and I respect his advice.

    I got the measles vaccine when I was little, but learned in a pre-employment physical that I was not immune to measles.

  12. I got sent home with the measles in 9th grade. NINTH GRADE! That was kind of embarrassing. It was like a really bad cold, but with a rash and itching. Seems like all the kids had the measles at some time or other back then. Most of them before NINTH GRADE.

    My kids got the chicken pox right at the time the vaccine was coming out. At that time, they gave it free to every kid at the county health center. My doctor sent me there. He said if he gave it in the office, it would be $100 per kid, so I might as well get it free like everybody else. Of course we were too late, they already caught it while we were waiting for Monday, the shot clinic day.

    Our students can't come to school unless they get their vaccinations. They get a letter from the school nurse in plenty of time so they know it's coming up. Once the deadline is here, they can't come back until they show they've been vaccinated. The only way out is a waiver due to religious beliefs.

  13. sometimes kids get diseases before they are old enough to be vaccinated. My youngest caught measles at 5 months from a kid aged 7 months in the next room at the hotel we were staying in, out here measles vaccination isn't given until 12 months. The older three had been vaccinated, so they still caught measles but only a very mild case for each of them, no headache, no fever, minimal rash.
    The flu vaccination is a tricky one, the current vaccination only protects against the current virus, whatever that may be. There are many, many, flu viruses and they are constantly mutating, so a general cover-all vaccination cannot be produced. People who get vaccinated, then get the flu are merely reacting to the live component of the vaccine, a psuedo flu is what they have and it isn't nearly as bad as a dose of the real flu they might have caught. OR they may have caught a different strain of flu not covered by the vaccination they received. It's a very hit-and-miss situation. I've never had a flu vaccination. Last year, I caught my very first ever case of flu. it was horrifying.
    Here in Australia, the vaccines given to babies is available free with clinics usually held in some common area like the local Town Hall, babies are vaccinated at 2months, 4 months, 6 months, (unless they've changed it, mine were done over 3 years ago) then there is the combined measles/mumps at 12 months and a booster shot before starting school.

  14. When my twin granddaughters were five and getting ready to start kindergarten, my son found out they had to get their vaccinations before they could go to school. He was broke so I paid for them. Those girls are now in high school and I am glad they won't get measles.

  15. I have just breathed a sigh of relief not to have read an anti vax post or any anti vax comments!
    River you have summed up what I would say perfectly.
    Joe, I think vaccines should be mandatory but I understand why that makes people nervous. So I think they should be strongly encouraged with every carrot and stick practical, and where children arent vaccinated other other parents and visitors have the right to know. It is wrong that a childcare or kinder can say 'kids must be vaccinated' but they can't enforce that, AND other parents aren't aware there are unvaccinated kids there.

    1. "I have just breathed a sigh of relief not to have read an anti vax post or any anti vax comments!"

      …. and then I had to come along. Sorry! Well, I'm actually not "anti-vax" per se…just pro-choice about vaccines, and being able to make the choice for yourself and your own kids.

  16. I am the mom of ten healthy children. I love my kids just as much as the next person loves theirs, and I truly want the best for my kids. Every decision I make for them has their best interest in mind. That being said, I really hope they don't take away our right to choose vaccines for our kids. I believe in "informed consent" and the right to pick and choose which vaccines our children should be given, based on each individual child. There are illnesses that I feel pose no serious threat to my child. So why should I be forced to give them ALL vaccines if I only want a few for them? And if I have an older child that had a severe reaction to a vaccine, enough so that his own pediatrician recommend he not continue with that vaccine schedule -- then shouldn't I have reason to doubt that particular vaccine's safety for my younger kids? Shouldn't I have the parental right to refuse that particular vaccine for my other children, being that they have similar genetic make up of my older child and they, too, might have a bad reaction to it? I do not want "forced vaccinations" -- period. And as far as "the good for the community" goes, I do understand that. I really do. My heart goes out to any parent of a child who has cancer or has any other kind of ailment that won't allow for them to be vaccinated, or that will cause them to be in more danger to the flu or chicken pox or measles than the rest of us healthy people would be. But as I said, I love my children just as much as anyone else loves theirs, and if I were to be perfectly honest I will admit that I love my children more than I love other people's children -- don't we all love our own children more? So if there's a small chance that my child can be harmed by a vaccine -- a vaccine for an illness that I have no doubt my child can fight off with their own healthy immune system -- then why should I be forced to give them a potentially dangerous vaccine just to keep another person's child safe? So I guess I am a horrible & selfish person for thinking this way…but why is my child less important than anyone else's? Maybe the risk is "less" for my child, but if there is still a risk (and there IS) then why should I be forced to take that small risk with my own child? The truth is, there ARE perfectly healthy kids who are seriously injured or have died due to a vaccine. The CDC admits to this. So how do I know my child won't be one of them? How can anyone else guarantee that my child won't be one of them? They can't! Vaccines DO carry the risk of injury or death. It might not be common, but it can and it does happen. In fact, it happens with enough frequency that the vaccine companies have asked to be immune from any lawsuits regarding vaccine injuries or death. And our government granted them that immunity! They are completely exempt from being sued over an injury or death resulting from their product. That alone should raise a red flag. Why would the vaccine companies ask for this immunity? Might it be because there are many more vaccine injuries than they are admitting to or that are reported? If it were just a few, then a few lawsuits wouldn't hurt them any, right? They are a multi-billion dollar industry and they fear a handful of lawsuits? I don't think so. There's more going on with vaccines injuries than they are letting on. I truly believe this. Anyway, I am a terrible debater and can't really put into words my views on this….not very well, at least. So here is an article that I found that does a good job. It's not against vaccines, but rather against losing our right to choose. Sorry for the long comment. I'm not even sure this will all fit onto one comment so I will post the article after my post:

  17. *** Whether you're pro-vaccine, anti-vaccine, or fall somewhere in the middle, the questions you need to ask yourselves are as follows: Do you want to live in a world, where you cannot freely refuse a medical procedure that carries risk of injury or death?

    I'm not questioning your comfort level with today's vaccine schedule, because today's vaccine schedule will change. New vaccines and additional doses are added all the time. Children today receive as many as 49 doses of 14 vaccines before they reach age six, which is roughly 12 times higher than the number of vaccines administered to children back in 1940.

    With more than 220 new vaccines in the developmental pipeline for children and adults...and no end in sight..the question you must ask yourself is ARE YOU CERTAIN you will be 100% comfortable when 200 more vaccines are added to the mandated list in the future?

    If you say that yes, you're comfortable, then you're either:
    a) not expecting to be a parent or grandparent,
    b) don't think about it much because your kids are grown and out of the house, or
    c) lying to prove a point.

    No critical thinker, no honest person, would ever sign off on the sight-unseen vaccine schedule of the future. And yet that's what you're doing when you condemn the people who are fighting for your right to refuse.YOU have the right to refuse, should you ever choose to use it, because the very "anti-vaccine" people you demonize have been fighting for us all.


  18. Right now, the burden of "herd immunity" falls on small children, but that is changing. Vaccine manufacturers see an untapped market in adolescent and adult vaccine. They are coming for you next. What will you do if your state, your employer, or your insurance company forces you to get a vaccine that you simply don't want. It hasn't happened to you yet, but if the right to refuse is eroded, it will happen to you sooner than you might think. Who will you turn to? Your legislators who get campaign donations from pharmaceutical companies? The CDC that has former pharma executives sitting on the board? Who will you turn to if you ever want to say no?

    What if it harms you, even kills you or your family member? There will be no recourse. No one to blame. You absorb all the medical bills. Deal with all the anger, all the guilt. Alone.

    Once we enter the slippery slope of removing and individual's right to refuse medical procedures that carry a risk of injury or death, once we remove an individual's right to speak for him/herself and his/her children, we open ourselves up to an insidious new era, where other drugs and other procedures can be mandated.

    I heard (on NPR, interestingly enough) that there are people who want to test for a gene marker that's been found in mass shooters in the hopes that they can put the carriers of that gene on medications in early childhood. Sounds great, right? But many of us carry genes that will never be expressed. You could be a carrier of that gene. Or your child could be a carrier.

    So if we follow the "for the greater good" mentality behind vaccines (or the Nazi's "for the greater good" mentality behind eugenics - the breeding out illness.) We are looking at forcing people who may never express a sociopathic gene to take antipsychotics, just in case.
    Because that's what forced vaccination does. It asks children who may never come into contact with a particular virus to accept a vaccine, just in case. And that's what eugenics was all about. It sterilizes people who can pass on a genetic disease - just in case.

    Forced vaccination is a human rights violation. To support it when you know that the government's own National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) has paid nearly $3b to damaged persons. The government's Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) lists people who have died as a result of vaccines. Forced vaccination is unethical at best, sociopathic at worst.

    What can we do?
    1. The ethical thing to do is to allow people their right to refuse. Let doctors and big pharma - who has marketing budgets larger than the GDP of some countries - to do a better job of convincing parents that vaccines are safe, protective and harmless.
    2. Reverse the law that grants vaccine manufacturers total immunity from vaccine injury lawsuits. You can't sue a vaccine manufacturer if your child is injured or killed by a vaccine, even in cases where a safer vaccine was available and not chosen, or when they failed to recall a contaminated lot# in a timely manner.

    Think about that. You can't sue the manufacturer. What other product has legal and government protection? The complete immunity from liability does more to shake a parents' confidence in vaccines than anything else.**

    1. See I said it was complicated. Few issues are ever simple.

    2. True. Very true. Not many things are either black or white.

  19. I think you're on to something with making the decision not to vaccinate a very difficult one. I don't entirely trust the medical profession due to personal experience, but a stroll through any old graveyard says that childhood diseases are real and really deadly. But, I can't stand the thought of the government telling anyone what must be allowed with their body.